reincarnationcafe

I came out to a friend of mine recently. She's very spiritually open-minded. Except where she's not...she's met the Dalai Lama, and he said that "evil" people do not reincarnate as humans. Instead they reincarnate as insects that humans kill.

Therefore, according to the Eastern Dogma that she believes, I was not who I remember being.

And she keeps saying, "I don't know who told you that you were (Himmler), but they are wrong, because the Dalai Lama said..."

The problem with that piece of absolutist dogma isn't just that all it takes is one exception to invalidate an absolute, but it cannot be proven as it is given, because it is a negative statement.

Honestly...

I'm going to present her with a large steaminig cup of STFU in the form of the first three chapters of the manuscript that's too hot to handle right now, thanks to my involvement with the PD.

Phoenix

I've never been overly impressed with most of the "wisdom" of the East. There is a lot of interesting ideas though... I think the Theosophical explanation of reincarnation is much more likely. That explanation suggests that consciousness is ever evolving and indestructible. You can't come back as anything with a lesser level of it.

Besides, even doing bad stuff can foster evolution. If you wouldn't make that same mistake again, that's progress.

Don't even get me started on the Dali Lama. The Tibetan theocracy isn't much of an argument for the benefits of knowing about reincarnation. The place was terrible before the Chinese took over and it's still terrible (though for different reasons).

Besides, I'd have to see it somewhere before I'd believe he said anything like that. His statements are generally much more complex than that. It isn't compatible with most Buddhist thinking.

Peter

Ah, that is complete nonsense, reincarnation as an insect etc.

Or that spirituality and reincarnation remembering makes you good and idealistic.

Maybe somewhat off topic, but I would really like to know what was and what will be in future life a psychiatrist, a poet, a spiritual explorer and practiser of alternative medicine, the best known war criminal of our time, a butcher of Balkans, Radovan Karadzic. Any guesses?

I might buy his biography if a good one appears at some point. I find him quiet interesting.

I'm a new one here, by the way, one that has previously been only reading. Greetings to everybody.

Welcome to the forum Sofia.

The doctraine of transmigration as expoused by many religions makes no sense to me. If we are growing more and more complex it seems like being born as an insect really couldn't teach us anything useful. In all the many years I've studied reincarnation I have never ONCE heard a case of someone reincarnating as an insect. To me that's more convincing than the proclaimation of a religious leader with nothing to back up his statements.

If you were an insect, you probably wouldn't remember it anyway. The little dears appear to be almost completely on autopilot.

Actually - insects do think, somehow. Some of them will surprise you if you have a quiet moment and watch them make decisions...

I think we reincarnate as everything as once, so...
but that's another topic!

I can't find any reference to any statement like that from the Dalai Lama. Views on reincarnation differ as much in different sects of Buddhism as in any other religion.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've read a little of his writing. I can't imagine him saying something so simplistic.

Reminds me of a family guy quote.

Tom Tucker: A new study today has answered the question can bees think? They can't!

Thanks for welcome, Zeta.

Some thoughts on topic: The question in the first post really is how do our past life actions influence our present life cognitive capacities or do they in the first place.

I've made some conclusions as an observer rather than from my own PLs. I've grown up with somebody I've concluded had been quite bad person in the past life, a concentration camp guard and a real believer in nazi propagand. He did not tell me that, but I've concluded myself based on his behavour and thoughts in childhood. I even suspect he relived his past incarnation at some point, so strange was his behaviour at some point in adolescence.


The rational mind with intelligence and emotional mind are two separated things, but they all form consciousness. While intelligence isn't influenced by PL, emotional centers are. I recognize three levels of emotions: one inherited from reptiles, sense of security. It activates fight or flight mechanism. Second is bonding, all mamals bond to their offspring and some to groups. Third are moral feelings, like empathy and compassion.

Actions we do, now or in the past, influence our emotional levels. Thus, I would say this person got born with no moral feelings, some but limited amount of bonding capacity and strong focus on security. Those things influence strongly how the world is viewed, so he sees it very threatening place.

Agree?

Welcome, also, Sofia

Sofia_diamond wrote:
Some thoughts on topic: The question in the first post really is how do our past life actions influence our present life cognitive capacities or do they in the first place.

No, it's not.

There wasn't a question in the first post.

It was just a bit of venting about an issue that I run into occasionally online and off. Iwas surprised when this friend of mine shut me down with a supposed quotation from the Dalai Lama, and expected me to bow my head in submission before it.

I have a very pragmatic and non-spiritual view of reincarnation. To me it is a natural process, a recycling of souls if you will. Not magic and not something that religion has any business trying to set rules on. Or the new age crystal munchers and their Judeo-Christian interpretation of karma.

I have learned that you cannot know for sure who someone was in a past life, especially if you base it on a belief system's absolutist dogma.

And it really annoys me when people try to tell me who I was or wasn't based on their feelings, or their belief system.

Phoenix

I've made some conclusions as an observer rather than from my own PLs. I've grown up with somebody I've concluded had been quite bad person in the past life, a concentration camp guard and a real believer in nazi propagand. He did not tell me that, but I've concluded myself based on his behavour and thoughts in childhood. I even suspect he relived his past incarnation at some point, so strange was his behaviour at some point in adolescence.

Could you elaborate? What specifically about him or his actions made you think he was a concentration camp guard?

The rational mind with intelligence and emotional mind are two separated things, but they all form consciousness. While intelligence isn't influenced by PL, emotional centers are. I recognize three levels of emotions: one inherited from reptiles, sense of security. It activates fight or flight mechanism. Second is bonding, all mamals bond to their offspring and some to groups. Third are moral feelings, like empathy and compassion.

I disagree. Although intelligence can vary from life to life it definately carries over to differing degrees just as much as emotion. Emotion is a more obvious indicator for most but mental attitudes, prefferences and skills definately carry over as well. Intellect and emotion are more closely linked than we think. Other than gut responses most of our emotional responses come as a result of some degree of thought. It's possible to develop intellectually but not emotionally or vice versa and there is no guarantee there won't be backsliding or regression under differing circumstances. The way I see reincarnation is that we are still influenced mostly by nature and nurture but from several lives as well as the present.

The argument continues. I loaned her a copy of my manuscript and she's been reading it. We spent about 4 hours arguing over "the lama says" today.

Phoenix

Jesus! Ask her to show you the source. The premise behind the comment is incorrect. Buddhism isn't at all dualistic (like Christianity).

One of the reasons that Tibet was a borderline hell-hole is because the monks blessed everyone - farmer, artisan, robber without prejudice. Tibet was infested with highwaymen who preyed on the farmers, merchants and everyone else except the priests and the theocratic government didn't do anything about it.

Buddhism is about right action and wrong action, not good people and evil people. People are either unenlightened and thus lost in the world of illusion and their own karma, or enlightened and trying to unravel their karma and walk up the stairs out of this wilderness.

Intellectually and morally, it's top-of-the-line sophisticated. But it can be disasterously impractical in the real world of ruthless idiots, predators and psychopaths. Personally, I'd rather those unevolved types leave me and mine in peace in THIS world, not in some damned future incarnation. If the ruler, or any of his advisors had shown a glimmer of insight into politics, he would have sought a western alliance early on, like at the dawn of the Cold War when America was soliciting Asian alliances instead of ignoring the whole thing and then fleeing, leaving the populace to be treated like livestock by the Red Chinese.

Sorry, just my two dollars. I guess my box seat at the Olympics has been cancelled now.

Peter

pjt wrote:Jesus. Ask her to show you the source. The whole comment is incorrect. Buddhism isn't at all dualistic like Christianity.

I know what the source is.

Cognitive Dissonance.

She's having CD issues because she can't believe that someone who is such a close friend could have ever been "evil". As a result, she's trying to tell me who I wasn't in a past life, and using the Dalai Lama as her authority.

At the same time she doesn't think there is anything wrong with my lifetime as someone who killed people horribly over and over. I have major issues with having been an Aztec priest who regularly and repeatedly performed the rite of human sacrifice by cutting people open and ripping their hearts out. I don't think I want to know how many people I killed in that lifetime.

Phoenix

Could you elaborate? What specifically about him or his actions made you think he was a concentration camp guard?

Well, his my brother. All those actions that make me think so happened when he was under age 15, which was more than 20 years ago. There's quite lot to it, and it was really before either of us had much historical knowledge of the time. His nazi obsession lasted several years and included hours of marching and standing in position in front of mirror, talking and developing at lenght all those racial theories, with monkeys and blacks on bottom and german on top. Ironically we don't fit ourselves to highest rank, our position in that hierarchy was to be half exterminated and half slaves (fate for slavic people in nazi ideology), but he didn't seem to realize that.

There were many things, but I'll mention one event. He was obsessed with rules, every thing had to be in a correct place, otherwise he got upset. So one day our cat (a real lady) went to his room since he let the door open. But he fumed how the cat has broken the rule, rules have to be obeyed and if not, anybody has to be punished for an example. So he hanged a cat and through her in water. She must have been hanging at least 10 min, but as they have 9 lives she did survive. She even came back to us, although initially quite suspiciously. I loved her a lot after, even before, and was sorry I could not protect her then. I didn't understand what happened to him (my brother) back then, but later I thought he was so absorbed in his KZ lifetime which was full of stupid rules prisoners had to obey, and if they didn't, they were executed, often by hanging for example to others. He had need to recreate that world there, but the poor cat was the only available defenseless victim around. She could really be called a holocaust survivor.

The rational mind with intelligence and emotional mind are two separated things, but they all form consciousness. While intelligence isn't influenced by PL, emotional centers are. I recognize three levels of emotions: one inherited from reptiles, sense of security. It activates fight or flight mechanism. Second is bonding, all mamals bond to their offspring and some to groups. Third are moral feelings, like empathy and compassion.

I disagree. Although intelligence can vary from life to life it definately carries over to differing degrees just as much as emotion. Emotion is a more obvious indicator for most but mental attitudes, prefferences and skills definately carry over as well. Intellect and emotion are more closely linked than we think. Other than gut responses most of our emotional responses come as a result of some degree of thought. It's possible to develop intellectually but not emotionally or vice versa and there is no guarantee there won't be backsliding or regression under differing circumstances. The way I see reincarnation is that we are still influenced mostly by nature and nurture but from several lives as well as the present.

With what exactly do you disagree? Perhaps I expressed myself unclearly. I don't know if intelligence (such as IQ) is influence by PL, but emotions certantly are. What we like or dislike is a lot dictated by experiences from PLs. But in this concrete example from above, I think he in the PL trained to be emotionless, to supress all possible feelings of compassion eventually occuring towards the prisoners and conquered people, and even punitioned a prisoner for evoking such a feeling in him. So that carried in this life, admiration to toughness, military, hierarchy, rule obedience and despice for all soft emotions, such as empathy, pity etc. However, when he realized that these attitudes do not help you much in this life, since the conditions are different, he still cannot change them easily, just by reasoning or decision, even if he wants. That cause him a lot of emotional pain. That's my feeling at least.