reincarnationcafe

I actually finished this right as the old forum went down, but I never got the chance to post it there... so i'm going to post it here now...

Forensic Handwriting analysis is a particular interest of mine, and a couple of months back, Karen asked if I'd be willing to do a comparison of her writing from today with a sample from one of her past incarnations.
I thought it would be an interesting project, so I went ahead and did the comparison, and then wrote the following paper on my findings.

Ill warn you in advance, its kinda long, and I spend most of the first half explaining how I do analysis using other samples...
Oh yeah, I'm also long winded... get over it

Part 1 (Intro)

http://brooklynfan.livejournal.com/3356.html#cutid1

Part 2 (Karens Analysis)

http://brooklynfan.livejournal.com/3808.html#cutid1


Let me know what you guys think...

(And now Karen doesnt have to hunt me down...)

Wilhelm

And I keep hesitating and it seems to be because of time... but I've learned to spot the excuse in myself and go for the real reason.

Naturally, it's stupid. It's that the whole thing scares me. The analysis is another piece of evidence saying to me, "You really were that guy." Part of me just really doesn't want to finally ultimately decisively accept my past lives. Any of them. I was taught it was insanity and part of me doesn't want to jump off that cliff.

At the same time I talk about them as if I've totally accepted them all the time, don't I? That'd be the stupid part.

Nonetheless I'll take this opportunity to thank you publicly for doing this, Wilhelm. I appreciate your expertise and your hard work.

L&P,
Karen

I was taught it was insanity and part of me doesn't want to jump off that cliff.

Come join my camp! When you're diagnosed, it's a total free-fall!

Seriously, though, I think that's cool that you can even compare your past life writing with this life. My past life wrote like a doctor going over a very bumpy dirt road. I have to leave it up to the sideburns to give witness.

Wow -- that's one very convincing case. Thanks Kris.

I remember hearing about that case a couple of months ago. Very interesting information.

I think it would be very interesting to try and do comparisons like that on a larger scale and see what sorts of trendsemerge. Only problem is that we have to find a large number of people who (1) know who they were and (2) have samples of their handwriting... which is a long shot, at least in America... and it would be compounded by the fact that you would need to find people who didnt have calligraphy training... and who hadnt had the old style of handwriting beaten out of them when they were kids.

I mean, I sure as hell cant write in Sutterlin script anymore... Then again, I kinda sucked at it in the 40's too. But I can still do a mean common victorian fountain pen script

Hi Wilhelm et al:

I just read the analysis of my handwriting again -- and I have a caution about the matter of crossing some f's and not others. In Thomas More's day there were two ways of writing "s" and one of them looks like an uncrossed "f". So I suspect, from another look through the replica of More's annotated prayerbook (from which I got his writing) that this might be what we're seeing here. And yet I wonder... might my own habit of not crossing some f's be a throwback to that?

I don't buy a lot of books, btw, but this one I HAD to have, for obvious reasons. I was pretty tense when I cracked it. But I couldn't help thinking that his handwriting did look a fair amount like mine... not the same, but similar. Especially considering that he and I would have been taught completely different styles, being 500 years apart.

In regard to the fact that the samples are in a different language, I chose Latin samples rather than English, because English handwriting of that time... looks even more like a different language that Latin does. There are a lot of weird characters, and differences in familiar ones, such as the tail of the "y" bending to the right intstead of the left, the stick of the "d" bending way to the left, etc. It looks quite strange and with the different spellings as well, is almost impossible to read.

Based on a thing or two I've read about handwriting analysis and graphology before, I think I will be so bold -- and I hope you'll forgive me for it, Wilhelm -- as to point out a couple of things you didn't cover. Though of course I know I'm totally biased here!

One is the slant -- both Thomas More, in these samples at least, and I, write pretty much straight up and down. There are other samples of his writing that show more of a rightward slant, which you don't see with mine. The personality trait that the slant is associated with is extroversion. Now these More samples come from what must have been the least extroverted part of his life -- his time imprisoned in the Tower of London.

There's also how high and low the sticks and tails of the letters are flung -- which I think is about the same, pretty high and pretty low. Sending them high apparently means cautiousness and interest in abstract matters (totally true in my & More's cases!) while dropping them low... I can't seem to scare up what that means except it has something to do with "lower" desires such as sex, money, comforts, etc.

There's the way the letters are half-connected to each other and half not, sort of half-printing/half-cursive -- which More & I both do. It would be interesting to see if the same combinations of letters tend to be hooked up.

Finally, More and I tend to space words fairly far apart, though me more so than him... expressive of a desire for "breathing space," apparently.

Just some additional thoughts...

Warmly,
Karen

Hey, no problem pointing anything out, im sure as heck not the do all end all of... well... anything really

Besides, thats mostly graphology, and I didnt get into that too much... although it is very interesting (and oftentimes eerily accurate)

Oh, and I had forgotten about the S, thanks for reminding me (I know you had said something about it before, ill have to remember to put that into the next draft

Wilhelm

There's a problem with comparing WS's handwriting with mine:

One: he learned secretary script: it was a form of abbrecviated shorthand

and Two: his normal handwriting was variable.

So is mine, when I let it go. All over the bloody place, but not in the same way as his, except for one thing - the S's are similar.

I have chosen three deliberate handwritings over time, so my writing would be understood: I trained myself to them. Printing is my favored way of writing.

I've had three lifetimes between WS and now: how much can change the writing in btween the three?

I have yet to see any sample of Esther's handwriting, but Nino's resembles his past life form.

Fascinating topic! I've seen sample handwriting of some of my recent FPLs and suspected FPLs. I haven't had them compared professionally, but I can see my handwriting then was also pretty bad lol. I would hope that my handwriting would not carry over, mine is barely legible. From what I've seen though my handwriting was never spectacular. I'm very thankful to live in the age of computers where things are generally typed. I should also mention that I prefer print overwhelmingly, I'll never write in script if I don't have to.

My handwriting might have changed quite a bit in just a few lives. The suspected FPL that was recent was British and lived only a few decades ago, so the language ands style wouldn't be hugely different. He certainly wrote about similar topics and for similar reasons as I do. In the lives simulteneous to and following that one however, I had lives with conditions that could affect my handwriting. In the short lives since then I've been Epileptic, then Schizophrenic, Dyslexic last life and in this life have had neurological/motor skills problems since young, despite scoring very high on verbal reasoning skills since young as well. Whether these disorders carry over I can't say, but I've had neurological difficulties for 3 or rather 4 lives in a row, if you count the present. The earlier lives did not have those problems as far as I know, though they had the same basic personality as I do now. I can't find samples of their handwriting on google though. Most of my other FPLs were in non English cultures, or far in the past so few samples would survive, most likely.

Would it be possible to analyze my handwriting across lives in a similar manner, despite the difficulties that may be caused by the above mentioned differences. Also I had seen a picture my possible FPL drew when a child, I have similar pictures from when I was young on my photobucket, not sure how easily I could compare art though. I've done some graphology on my current life handwriting, the results do seem accurate! I've been impressed overall.

Hi Sandra (et al):

There's a problem comparing my handwriting to Alexander's: absolutely no writing known to have been done by him exists. <sigh>

Re three lives between, I have a theory: the more recent a life is, the more we'll resemble ourselves of that life, in multiple ways. So you'll be most similar to yourself in your most recent life, and least similar to ancient ones. I think this is especially true in things that are influenced by education, such as handwriting. It's simply taught differently now than it was, say, in medieval or (for your purposes) Elizabethan times.

Graphology would also suggest that if your personality has changed, your handwriting has ipso facto also.

At the same time it might be interesting to get Wilhelm to look at your's and WS's, Sandra -- there might be similarities you haven't noticed yourself. That was the case with mine and Thomas's.

Warmly,
Karen

Karen wrote:There's a problem comparing my handwriting to Alexander's: absolutely no writing known to have been done by him exists. <sigh>

I'm surprised there's not some personal records of his left, that must be a bit disappointing. A lot of my lives are in a similar predicament, in that it's dashed hard to track down the writing from off-world incarnations. *L*
I do know, however, that whenever I write while chatting with a previous life she says something along the lines of, "Your handwriting is like the scratching of birds". Heh. I've been in a good few 'formal' civilizations in the past, where the act of writing was itself considered an artform, so the quick jotting down of notes we do these days isn't all that impressive or comparable.

I agree with there being difficulties across time and cultures, things having changed. It's a real battle of wills against memory and how we're taught in school. A prime example would be that a few decades ago naturally left-handed children were forced to write with their right hands, therefore certainly losing (or at least greatly distorting) any past life indications that may have come through that way.
Personally I think handwriting is a hard one to go on, specifically for the reason that we're all taught it so young and it's such an integral part of our schooling for so many years. I'm more inclined to think that past life traits are expressed in areas that aren't taught commonly, or that we aren't exposed to as children. For example, when I first picked up a bow and arrow (again) my archery coach was really surprised to see that I had a perfect hunter's form which, while not suitable on the field, still won me three state records by the end of my first year. Those who knew my history were not surprised.

Cheers,

Saau

Damn, I take off for a few minutes and things take off (that old Bee Gees song "I started a joke" is running through my mind )

Anyway, to answer

Would it be possible to analyze my handwriting across lives in a similar manner, despite the difficulties that may be caused by the above mentioned differences. I've done some graphology on my current life handwriting, the results do seem accurate! I've been impressed overall.

Is it possible to analyze... well yeah, you can analyze just about anything. Can you draw concrete conclusions... well, thats debatable (see below)

And yes, Graphology is very interesting. I remember a while back I did a graphology test on a website as a lark, and it came out eerily accurate... I posted both the ones I did annotated here...

http://brooklynfan.livejournal.com/5197.html
Its got links to both sites, one at the very top and one at the bottom (for those of you who really dont want to wade through everything else)


I have chosen three deliberate handwritings over time, so my writing would be understood: I trained myself to them. Printing is my favored way of writing.
Different lifetimes, or the same one? Anytime where you 'train yourself' or get instruction on other forms of handwriting you will get seriously bad variances. this is even the same with handwriting from the same lifetime, as even if youre not trying, things tend to bleed through.

I've had three lifetimes between WS and now: how much can change the writing in btween the three?
Youd be surprised. As I said.. somewhere, theres a lot of elements that can change ones writing. the most disasterous being the overbearing writing teacher..

Re three lives between, I have a theory: the more recent a life is, the more we'll resemble ourselves of that life, in multiple ways. So you'll be most similar to yourself in your most recent life, and least similar to ancient ones. I think this is especially true in things that are influenced by education, such as handwriting. It's simply taught differently now than it was, say, in medieval or (for your purposes) Elizabethan times.

Interesting theory, although it wouldn't be great in my case. I was a bit of a jerk in my last life.. Although I had good reason. I tend to be a lot more like I was back in the 40'a and late 1800's.. Although I did pick up a few good points on the sarcasm front last time around.
I will very much agree on the similarities being more difinitive between more recent lives, simply because there is a lot less time and extenuating factors that can affect you. I'd say in a lot of cases (theres always that .001%) a person would bemore like they were 50-100 years ago than 1,000 or 2500 years ago.


Personally I think handwriting is a hard one to go on, specifically for the reason that we're all taught it so young and it's such an integral part of our schooling for so many years. I'm more inclined to think that past life traits are expressed in areas that aren't taught commonly, or that we aren't exposed to as children.

I will agree somewhat (Ohh, lets all watch Will rip apart his own paper..) I will say that one should not look at handwriting analysis (or indeed any other singular attempts at finding correlations) as the do all end all of verifying a past life existence. To do that is simply foolish... What I think it can be used for is as part of the evidence either for or against a particular personality. And to be truthful, its circumstancial evidence at best, since, as I have said before, there is so much that can skew the results of a handwriting analysis. I mean, for example, I was looking through one of my note pads trying to find something, and I looked at some of the notes I had for a paper, a self regression from the 1940's and some notes I had from a few nights ago when I was in a very agitated state, and the writing is worlds apart, especially the agitated writing. Even in the same lifetime, mental state has a HUGE impact on one's handwriting.

With that said, I will say that in Karens samples, I was VERY surprised to find what I did. To be honest, I didnt think I'd find anything. But (at least IMHO) I did find a number of things that if nothing else show a lot of likeness between her writing and the writing of someone else who lived waaay before she did. I find that interesting.

Would it hold up in court, no. But it is still something to think about.

To conclude what I was saying earlier, I think that it can be used as part of a body of evidence. To say, yeah, I was this person simply because because my handwriting matches would be like saying that ducks and witches are the same thing because they both float. However, if the handwriting matches, and you have independantly verified memories, and outside verification, and this and this, then the handwriting, I feel, can be used as a part of a whole to make a better case.


For example, when I first picked up a bow and arrow (again) my archery coach was really surprised to see that I had a perfect hunter's form which, while not suitable on the field, still won me three state records by the end of my first year. Those who knew my history were not surprised.

This reminds me of something that happened a number of years ago. At the end of my senior year in High school, I went on a cruise to the caribbean. One of the places that we stopped of at was in Cozumel mexico, and I decided to take a horseback tour of the Aztec ruins in the area (History and horses.. score). Now this was mexico, and the horses were mexican ponies.. far from the broken trail horses you find in American trail rides. We'd been riding for bit and the guide pulls up beside me and asks out of the blue
"Are you in the American Army?"
"Uh, no."

We rode for a few more paces, and he turns to me again and asks
"You ride like someone who has a lot of experience. Do you ride in the states?"
"uh, does summer camp count?"
It was weird at the time, but in retrospect, I find it to be amusing.

At the same time it might be interesting to get Wilhelm to look at your's and WS's, Sandra -- there might be similarities you haven't noticed yourself. That was the case with mine and Thomas's.

Im never adverse to a new and interesting project... its not like I have a personal life or anything. If Sandra (or anyone else for that matter) wants me to take a look, feel free to ask. Like I said, im far from the do all end all of authority on this or anything, but im always willing to take a shot and see what I can find.

Wilhelm
(The long winded one)

I had a similar experience about horses the first time I mounted: I mounted perfectly without any trouble and the handler commented on that. The problem with THAT experience is, it scared me, and everything I got on a horse after that I was so self-conscious the riding never went well again ! I stopped trying to ride when I was a kid...

Handwriting on its way....